Medjugorje: the visionaries have seen Heaven. The journey of Vicka and Jacov

Vicka's journey

Father Livio: Tell me where you were and what time it was.

Vicka: We were in the small house of Jakov when the Madonna came. It was an afternoon, around 15,20 pm. Yes, it was 15,20.

Father Livio: Did you not wait for the apparition of the Madonna?

Vicka: No. Jakov and I returned to Citluk's house where his mom was (Note: Jakov's mom is now dead). In Jakov's house there is a bedroom and a kitchen. Her mom had gone to get something to prepare some food, because a little later we should have gone to church. While we waited, Jakov and I started looking at a photo album. Suddenly Jakov went off the sofa before me and I realized that the Madonna had already arrived. He immediately said to us: "You, Vicka, and you, Jakov, come with me to see Heaven, Purgatory and Hell". I said to myself: "Okay, if that is what Our Lady wants". Jakov instead said to Our Lady: “You bring Vicka, because they are many brothers. Do not bring me who am an only child. " He said so because he didn't want to go.

Father Livio: Evidently he thought you would never come back! (Note: Jakov's reluctance was providential, because it makes the story even more credible and real.)

Vicka: Yes, he thought that we would never come back and that we would go forever. Meanwhile, I thought how many hours or how many days it would take and I wondered if we would go up or down. But in a moment the Madonna took me by the right hand and Jakov by the left hand and the roof opened to let us pass.

Father Livio: Did everything open?

Vicka: No, it didn't all open, only that part that was needed to get through. In a few moments we arrived in Paradise. As we went up, we saw down the small houses, smaller than when seen from the plane.

Father Livio: But you looked down on the earth, while you were carried up?

Vicka: As we were brought up, we looked down.

Father Livio: And what did you see?

Vicka: All very small, smaller than when you go by plane. Meanwhile I was thinking: "Who knows how many hours or how many days it takes!" . Instead in a moment we arrived. I saw a large space….

Father Livio: Listen, I read somewhere, I don't know if it's true, that there is a door, with a rather elderly person next to it.

Vicka: Yes, yes. There is a wooden door.

Father Livio: Large or small?

Vicka: Great. Yes, great.

Father Livio: It is important. It means that many people enter it. Was the door open or closed?

Vicka: It was closed, but Our Lady opened it and we entered it.

Father Livio: Ah, how did you open it? Did it open on its own?

Vicka: Alone. We went to the door that opened by itself.

Father Livio: I seem to understand that Our Lady is truly the door to heaven!

Vicka: To the right of the door was St. Peter.

Father Livio: How did you know it was S. Pietro?

Vicka: I knew immediately that it was him. With a key, rather small, with a beard, a little stocky, with hair. It has remained the same.

Father Livio: Was he standing or sitting?

Vicka: Stand up, stand by the door. As soon as we entered, we went ahead, walking, maybe three, four meters. We haven't visited all of Paradise, but Our Lady explained it to us. We have seen a large space surrounded by a light that does not exist here on earth. We have seen people who are neither fat nor thin, but all the same and have three colored robes: gray, yellow and red. People walk, sing, pray. There are also little Angels flying. Our Lady said to us: "Look how happy and content the people who are here in Heaven are." It is a joy that cannot be described and that does not exist here on earth.

Father Livio: Our Lady made you understand the essence of Paradise which is happiness that never ends. "There is joy in heaven," he said in his message. He then showed you the perfect people and without any physical defect, to make us understand that, when there is the resurrection of the dead, we will have a body of glory like that of the Risen Jesus. However, I would like to know what kind of dress they wore. Tunics?

Vicka: Yes, some tunics.

Father Livio: Did they go all the way to the bottom or were they short?

Vicka: They were long and went all the way.

Father Livio: What color were the tunics?

Vicka: Gray, yellow and red.

Father Livio: In your opinion, do these colors have a meaning?

Vicka: Our Lady did not explain it to us. When she wants, Our Lady explains, but at that moment she didn't explain to us why they have the tunics of three different colors.

Father Livio: What are the Angels like?

Vicka: Angels are like little children.

Father Livio: Do ​​they have the full body or only the head as in Baroque art?

Vicka: They have the whole body.

Father Livio: Do ​​they also wear tunics?

Vicka: Yes, but I'm short.

Father Livio: Can you see the legs then?

Vicka: Yes, because they don't have long tunics.

Father Livio: Do ​​they have small wings?

Vicka: Yes, they have wings and fly above people who are in Heaven.

Father Livio: Once Our Lady spoke of abortion. He said it was a serious sin and those who procure it will have to answer for it. The children, on the other hand, are not to blame for this and are like little angels in heaven. In your opinion, are the little angels of paradise those aborted children?

Vicka: Our Lady did not say that the little Angels in Heaven are the children of abortion. He said abortion is a great sin and those people who did it, and not the children, respond to it.

Jacov's journey

FATHER LIVIO: What we heard from Vicka, we would like to hear it now also from your own voice. I believe that the two testimonials together will become not only more credible, but also more complete.

However, I would first like to observe that it had never happened in two millennia of Christianity that two people had been brought into the afterlife with their bodies and then brought back among us, so that they could tell us what they had seen. Undoubtedly, Our Lady wanted to give a strong appeal to modern man, who often thinks that everything ends with life. This testimony about the afterlife is undoubtedly one of the strongest that God has ever addressed to us, and is in my opinion to be considered an act of great mercy towards our generation.

I would like to underline the fact that here we are faced with an extraordinary grace that you have received and that it is not lawful for us believers to underestimate. In fact, the same apostle Paul, when he wants to remind his denigrators of the charisms that he received from God, mentions precisely the fact of having been transported to Heaven; he cannot say, however, whether with body or without body. It is undoubtedly a very rare and extraordinary gift, given by God to you, but above all to us. Now we ask Jakov to tell us about this incredible experience as completely as possible. When did it happen? How old were you then?

JAKOV: I was eleven.

FATHER LIVIO: Do you remember what year it was?

JAKOV: It was 1982.

FATHER LIVIO: Don't you remember in what month?

JAKOV: I don't remember.

FATHER LIVIO: Not even Vicka remembers the month. Maybe it was November?

JAKOV: I can't say that.

FATHER LIVIO: Anyway we were in 1982?

JAKOV: Yes.

FATHER LIVIO: The second year of the apparitions, therefore.

JAKOV: Me and Vicka were in my old house.

FATHER LIVIO: Yes, I remember seeing her. But is there still now?

JAKOV: No, it's gone now. My mom was inside. Mom came out for a moment, while Vicka and I talked and joked.

FATHER LIVIO: Where had you been before? I heard you went to Citluk.

JAKOV: Yes. I think the others had stayed there while we returned home. I don't remember well now.

FATHER LIVIO: So you two were in the old house while your mom was gone for a moment.

JAKOV: Vicka and I talked and joked.

FATHER LIVIO: What time was it more or less?

JAKOV: It was afternoon. We turn around and see the Madonna in the middle of the house and immediately we kneel. She greets us as always and says ...

FATHER LIVIO: How do you greet the Madonna?

JAKOV: Say by saying "Praised be Jesus Christ. Then immediately he said to us:" Now I am taking you with me. " But immediately I said no.

FATHER LIVIO: "I'll take you with me" ... Where?

JAKOV: To show us Heaven, Hell and Purgatory.

FATHER LIVIO: He said to you: "Now I am taking you with me to show you Heaven, Hell and Purgatory", and you got scared?

JAKOV: I said to her, "No, I'm not going." In fact, I thought that I had already accepted the Madonna, her apparitions and her messages. But now that he says: "I take you to see Heaven, Purgatory and hell", for me it is already another thing ...

FATHER LIVIO: A too great experience?

JAKOV: Yes and I said to her: “No, Madonna, no. You bring Vicka. They are eight, while I am an only child. Even if one of them remains less ...

FATHER LIVIO: You thought that ...

JAKOV: That I would never go back down. But Our Lady said: “You don't have to be afraid of anything. I am with you"

FATHER LIVIO: Of course the presence of the Madonna gives great security and serenity.

"I'll take you to see Heaven ..."

JAKOV: He took us by the hand ... it really lasted ...

FATHER LIVIO: Listen to Jakov; I would like a clarification. Did he take you by the right hand or the left hand?

JAKOV: I don't remember.

FATHER LIVIO: Do you know why I ask you? Vicka always says that the Madonna took her by the right hand.

JAKOV: And then he took me by the left hand.

FATHER LIVIO: And then what happened?

JAKOV: It really didn't last long ... We immediately saw the sky ...

FATHER LIVIO: Listen, how did you manage to get out of the house?

JAKOV: Our Lady took us and everything opened up.

FATHER LIVIO: Did the roof open?

JAKOV: Yes, everything. Then we immediately arrived in Heaven.

FATHER LIVIO: In an instant?

JAKOV: In an instant.

FATHER LIVIO: As you went up to Heaven, did you look down?

JAKOV: No.

FATHER LIVIO: Didn't you look down?

JAKOV: No.

FATHER LIVIO: Did you not see anything while climbing up?

JAKOV: No, no, no. We enter this immense space ...

FATHER LIVIO: One moment. I heard you went through a door first. Was there a door or was it not there?

JAKOV: Yes, there was. Vicka says that she also saw ... as they say ...

FATHER LIVIO: San Pietro.

JAKOV: Yes, San Pietro.

FATHER LIVIO: Did you see it?

JAKOV: No, I haven't looked. I was so scared at the time that in my head I don't know what ...

FATHER LIVIO: Vicka instead looked at everything. In truth, she always sees everything, even on this earth.

JAKOV: She was more courageous.

FATHER LIVIO: She says she looked down and saw the small earth, and also says that, before entering Heaven, there was a closed door. It was closed?

JAKOV: Yes, and afterwards it opened and we entered.

FATHER LIVIO: But who opened it?

JAKOV: I don't know. Alone…

FATHER LIVIO: Did it open by itself?

JAKOV: Yes, yes.

FATHER LIVIO: Is it open in front of the Madonna?

JAKOV: Yes, yes, that's right. Let's enter this space ...

FATHER LIVIO: Listen, did you walk on something solid?

JAKOV: What? No, I didn't feel anything.

FATHER LIVIO: You were really taken by a great fear.

JAKOV: Eh, I really didn't feel my feet or my hands, nothing at that moment.

FATHER LIVIO: Did Our Lady hold you by the hand?

JAKOV: No, after that he didn't hold my hand anymore.

FATHER LIVIO: She preceded you and you followed her.

JAKOV: Yes.

FATHER LIVIO: It was obvious that it was she who preceded you in that mysterious kingdom.

JAKOV: Let's enter this space ...

FATHER LIVIO: Even if the Madonna was there, were you still afraid?

JAKOV: Oh!

FATHER LIVIO: Incredible, you were afraid!

JAKOV: Why, as I said before, do you think ...

FATHER LIVIO: It was a whole new experience.

JAKOV: All new, because I never thought of it ... I knew it, because they taught us from childhood, that there is Heaven, as well as hell. But you know, when they talk about these things to a kid, he has a huge fear.

FATHER LIVIO: We must not forget that Vicka was sixteen and Jakov only eleven. An important age diversity.

JAKOV: Eh, indeed.

FATHER LIVIO: Of course, it is perfectly understandable.

JAKOV: And when you say to a child, "Now I'll take you to see those things there," I think it scares you.

FATHER LIVIO: (addressed to those present): “Is there a ten year old boy here? There he is. Look how small it is. Take him to the afterlife and see if he doesn't get scared. "

JAKOV: (to the boy): I don't wish you that.

FATHER LIVIO: Have you experienced, therefore, a great emotion?

JAKOV: Definitely.

The joy of Heaven

FATHER LIVIO: What did you see in Heaven?

JAKOV: We enter this immense space.

FATHER LIVIO: An immense space?

JAKOV: Yes, a beautiful light in which you can see inside ... People, many people.

FATHER LIVIO: Is Paradise crowded?

JAKOV: Yes, there are many people.

FATHER LIVIO: Fortunately yes.

JAKOV: People who were dressed in long robes.

FATHER LIVIO: Dress, in the sense of long tunics?

JAKOV: Yes. People sang.

FATHER LIVIO: What was he singing?

JAKOV: He sang songs, but we didn't understand what.

FATHER LIVIO: I guess they sang well.

JAKOV: Yes, yes. The voices were beautiful.

FATHER LIVIO: Beautiful voices?

JAKOV: Yes, beautiful voices. But the thing that struck me most was just that joy that you saw on the face of those people.

FATHER LIVIO: Was joy seen on people's faces?

JAKOV: Yes, on people's faces. And it is that joy that you feel inside, because so far we have talked about fear, but when we entered Heaven, at that moment we only felt the joy and peace that can be felt in Paradise.

FATHER LIVIO: Did you feel it in your heart too?

JAKOV: Me too in my heart.

FATHER LIVIO: And therefore you have in a certain sense tasted a bit of Paradise.

JAKOV: I have tasted that joy and peace that are felt in Heaven. For this reason, every time they ask me what Heaven is like, I don't really like talking about it.

FATHER LIVIO: It is not expressible.

JAKOV: Because I believe that Paradise is not what we really see with our eyes.

FATHER LIVIO: Interesting what you are saying ...

JAKOV: Heaven is what we see and hear in our heart.

FATHER LIVIO: This testimony seems to me exceptional and very profound. In fact, God must adapt to the weakness of our fleshly eyes, while it is in the heart that he can communicate to us the most sublime realities of the supernatural world.

JAKOV: That's what feels most important inside. For this reason, even if I wanted to describe what I felt in Heaven, I could never, because what my heart felt cannot be expressed.

FATHER LIVIO: Heaven was therefore not so much what you saw as what you gracefully felt inside.

JAKOV: What I've heard, surely.

FATHER LIVIO: And what did you hear?

JAKOV: An immense joy, a peace, a desire to stay, to always be there. It's a state where you don't think about anything or anyone else. You feel relaxed in all ways, an incredible experience.

FATHER LIVIO: Yet you were a child.

JAKOV: I was a kid, yes.

FATHER LIVIO: Did you feel all this?

JAKOV: Yes, yes.

FATHER LIVIO: And what did Our Lady say?

JAKOV: Our Lady said that people who have remained faithful to God go to Heaven. This is why, when we talk about Heaven, we can now recall this message from Our Lady that says: “I came here to save you all and bring you all one day from my Son. " In this way we will all be able to know the joy and peace that are felt inside. That peace and all that God can give us is experienced in Paradise.

FATHER LIVIO: Listen

JAKOV: Have you seen God in Paradise?

JAKOV: No, no, no.

FATHER LIVIO: Did you just taste his joy and his peace?

JAKOV: Definitely.

FATHER LIVIO: The joy and peace that God gives in Heaven?

JAKOV: Definitely. And after this ...

FATHER LIVIO: Were there angels too?

JAKOV: I haven't seen them.

FATHER LIVIO: You haven't seen them, but Vicka says that above there were little angels flying. Absolutely right observation, since angels are also in Heaven. Except that you don't look too much at the details and always go to the essentials. You are more attentive to internal experiences than to external realities. When you described the Madonna, you did not refer so much to the external features, but you immediately caught her mother's attitude. In the same way as regards Heaven, your testimony regards first of all the great peace, the immense joy and the desire to remain there as you feel.

JAKOV: Definitely.

FATHER LIVIO: Well, what else can you say about Heaven, Jakov?

JAKOV: Nothing else from Heaven.

FATHER LIVIO: Listen, Jakov; when you see the Madonna don't you already feel some Paradise in your heart?

JAKOV: Yes, but it's different.

FATHER LIVIO: Ah yes? And what is diversity?

JAKOV: As we said before, Our Lady is Mother. In Paradise you don't feel that kind of joy, but another.

FATHER LIVIO: Do you mean a different joy?

JAKOV: You feel another joy, different from what you feel when you see the Madonna.

FATHER LIVIO: When you see the Madonna what joy do you feel?

JAKOV: A mother's joy.

FATHER LIVIO: On the other hand, what is joy in Heaven: is it greater, lesser or equal?

JAKOV: For me it's a bigger joy.

FATHER LIVIO: Is that of Heaven bigger?

JAKOV: Bigger. Because I think Heaven is the best you can have. But even Our Lady gives you a lot of joy. They are two different joys.

FATHER LIVIO: These are two different joys, but that of Heaven is truly a divine joy, which arises from the contemplation of God face to face. An advance was given to you, insofar as you could support it. Personally I can say that, in the many mystical texts that I have read during my life, I have never heard of Paradise described in such sublime and involving terms, even if they are based on the greatest simplicity and truly understandable by everyone.

FATHER LIVIO: Bravo, Jakov! Now let's go to see Purgatory. So you came out of Paradise ... How did it happen? Did Our Lady Lead You Out?

JAKOV: Yes, yes. And we found each other ...

FATHER LIVIO: Excuse me, but I still have a question: is Heaven a place for you?

JAKOV: Yes, it's a place.

FATHER LIVIO: A place, but not as there are on earth.

JAKOV: No, no, an endless place, but it's not like our place here. It's another thing. A whole other thing.